SPI 872: Podcast Guesting to Generate Profit & Grow Your Network with Dustin Riechmann

SPI 872: Podcast Guesting to Generate Profit & Grow Your Network with Dustin Riechmann

Dustin Riechmann: It’s march 2020 and I’m now driving to a trade show in Chicago and it’s canceled and half my clients have to fire me because they’re closed. But that dark night of the soul, this part where I like, I gotta go back to engineering, I don’t know what I’m gonna do. Actually led me to think differently and think, what can I do from home that would still capitalize on a lot of my gifts and my unique abilities? And what I found was podcast guesting and it was staring me right in the face.

Which is awesome because it gives me a lot more freedom. I’m able to hang out with my kids and not have to worry about whether the next referral’s coming. There’s lots of reasons to do podcast guesting . But if you’re an entrepreneur, I hope one of the reasons you want to do it is profit. Because if you’re scared, if you’re like feeling vulnerable, if you don’t have a predictable way to generate leads for your business, like I totally get it. That was me.

But if I could sell $2 meat sticks to strangers on the internet by telling stories, you could totally use it for whatever you’re selling. I did that for like a year, 18 months, and then, I started getting interviewed about how did you use podcast guessing to grow this meat stick thing? And then people started asking me how to help with the podcast guessing itself. And for the past three years I’ve got this company that just helps entrepreneurs use podcast guessing to grow their business. And I’ve been able to help 200 people with this system and generate over, you know, $20 million of revenue.

Pat Flynn: Oh my gosh. I just got done listening to just a couple minutes ’cause I couldn’t stand to listen to any more of it, a couple minutes of episode 12 of my own podcast, of this very podcast that you’re listening to. This was from 14 years ago and it was a podcast episode about productivity tips. It relates to our guest who’s on the podcast today.

Because I referenced his guest post on SPI back in this episode again, episode 12. And I just gotta say, man. It was hard to listen to, but it also teaches us an important lesson with regards to sticking with it. You know, we are now in episode eight hundred and seventy two, fourteen years later, so many new skills have been unlocked as a communicator, an entrepreneur, a business owner, just by simply sticking with it. And a lot of us live in this age now where we want instant gratification. But if you wanna be a pro, you have to give yourself time to become a pro. You have to step up to the plate. You have to strike out every once in a while.

And boy, episode 12 felt like a strikeout to me. In fact, I hit foul balls the entire time and then swung and miss and wow. I’ve come a long way and it, it’s interesting to go back and listen to yourself or watch yourself watching yourself is even worse. Oh my gosh. Some of my earlier YouTube videos from 2009 are just so cringe.

But as I say, you gotta be cringe. Before they binge. And the faster you can learn your way into something, the more results you’ll have, the more useful you’ll be, the more value you’ll have to offer. So if you wanna learn something quickly, stop learning and start doing. And this is everything that my new book Lean Learning is about and it actually comes out next week in less than weeks, six days from today. So if you haven’t gotten access to the book yet, the pre-order is available. If you go to LeanLearningBook.com, there are bonuses there if you pick it up before June 3rd, and some of them might still be there, some of them might be expired or out because some of them are limited, and it would be an absolute honor for you to check out the book and pre-order it on Amazon or Barnes or wherever you could pick up books.

It’s coming out shortly, and this is a, I mean, I’ve been so nervous and excited about this, and one day I’ll have incredible excitement for the book and do an interview. And it just like blows people’s mind when they talk about it. And then the next day I’ll feel like it’s just, and I’ve talked about this in a previous episode, when you go so deep into something that you almost get sick of it.

I’m not sick of it. I’m excited for it. But I’m also nervous about how you all will respond to it. It is my life’s work into something that is not just about entrepreneurship, but learning and discovery. And that actually does relate to our guest today, who over the years has stuck with it and has learned something and is now teaching this as well.

And it’s Dustin Reichman, who had once left a blog post on this very blog, Smart Passive Income in 2011, which is why I found that podcast also about productivity. And he is now a world’s expert at guest podcasting. He’s gone on stages to teach his framework. He has helped people who are huge build businesses.

He’s helped people who are not huge, become huge. In fact, there’s a business that he talks about that is a physical product consumable that he was able to use guest podcasting to help this business explode and become a seven figure business. And it’s just an amazing story. And Dustin is a kindhearted family man, amazing person.

His blog that he guest posted with back in the day was called Engaged Marriage. He’s just a family man at heart and I really connect with him on a lot of things, especially the importance of guest podcasting. So two things real quick. Number one,  LeanLearningBook.com. Check that out. And number two, let’s sit back and listen to Dustin give us the rundown on how to best approach guest podcasting and show up.

Perform and also profit and do it in a way where you’re not taking anything but more giving to the podcast host and their audience so you can be the best guest and also build your network at the same time. This is topnotch, top level, high value stuff. So let’s enjoy this. You can find Dustin at 7FigureLeap.com. Again,  7FigureLeap.com, and he has a resource for us about this episode at the end, so stick around for that. Here we go.

Dustin, welcome to SP Thanks for being here, man.

Dustin Riechmann: It’s an honor, Pat. Thanks for having me.

Pat Flynn: I was exploring the blog not too long ago and I, knowing that this interview was gonna happen and you had a, I think it was a guest post or something in 2011, so this is like now 14, 15 years later.

We are reconnecting in the best way and so I’m sure we’ll quote unquote catch up as we go through this, but I like take us from Engaged Marriage, which was the, the brand I remember from you. What was that? For everybody who doesn’t, and then where did you go from there? We’ll just kind of catch up and start there.

Dustin Riechmann: Yeah. That’s awesome. So Engaged Marriage was my first online business. And to give people context, I was actually an engineer, full-time engineer while I was doing Engaged Marriage at the time that you and I met. And I’d been an engineer since 2001. So paralleling your architecture journey. I was in the engineering side of that world.

And my wife and I were doing marriage ministry, and I got inspired by this book, by Dan Miller when we kind of got our first trip away from our kids. And his whole premise was like, everyone needs a creative outlet, sort of everyone has a side hustle. Before we called it that, and I started this, I engaged marriage in 2009 and it was the heyday of blogging.

And so actually you and I can elaborate on something even before that guest post where I put together this collaborative ebook and I asked people I admired on the internet, Hey, would you like to contribute to this? And actually have an entry from Pat Flynn circa 2010, sharing his best relationship advice as part of that.

And yeah, but engaged marriage grew from there through a lot of collaboration and you know, the brand really helped me grow up online. I learned not only how to write and how to think and how to end up writing a book. And my wife and I did some speaking, but it really pulled me over deeply into the world of digital marketing.

It became a successful membership site and did courses and, and all the things back in the day, but I had actually forgot about the guest post opportunity on SPI being part of that.

Pat Flynn: Yeah, that’s crazy. What was my relationship advice? I’m curious.

Dustin Riechmann: Oh man. I actually happen to have it at my fingertips. I have to scroll down to it. Let’s see here.

Pat Flynn: That’s crazy. We haven’t connected since then. Why did we do such a bad job of staying connected?

Dustin Riechmann: I don’t know why we did such a bad job. Maybe it’s the premise of your, now that I have it up, it’s waiting in line. And the whole premise of your little short essay here is what are you waiting for? Quit asking for permission. So I guess I just was too shy and too, too introverted to ask Pat Flynn and, and the man that I admired so much from afar, like for permission to come and connect with you again.

Pat Flynn: Oh, man. Well, we have a lot to uncover and talk about. And now that you’re this incredible expert, you’ve built these frameworks and, and flywheels, you also are very, very loud about how much you think guest podcasting is still a great way to get in front of audiences, which I completely agree still. And so we’re gonna dive into all those kinds of things, but for all things that you’ve learned about digital marketing entrepreneurship in the world that we live in today, what is on top of mind for you?

What is most important for people who are just starting out today to build something, to create and to succeed online?

Dustin Riechmann: I still think, and it goes all the way back to that first example, it’s relationship building. Yeah. You know, relationship building of course takes many forms and fashions. There’s relationship building with your potential audience, with collaborators, with thought leaders and people that you admire ultimately with like mentors and, and people that you might wanna invest in to give you shortcuts and help.

But, you know, your network is, your net worth is a cliche for a reason, and I’ve really grown to believe that in a deep way in the past 15 years, and all the different iterations of business that I’ve been involved with, the thing that’s pushed me forward and the thing that’s helped me advance in every single case is a hundred percent some human relationship that I’ve been able to foster through serving and giving first.

I actually noticed the shirt you’re wearing today, the serve first. Give first is always a mantra that I’ve believed in, and I feel like if you do that and you plant these seeds and you. Grow relationships over time. Like I know that’s a little soft maybe as far as like a tactic for someone, but that is honestly the key to success is relationship building.

Pat Flynn: How do you step forward and start building relationships when you don’t feel like you have anything to offer? You’re just starting out. You’re kind of a small fish in a big pond. How do you even begin to start doing that?

Dustin Riechmann: I think one of the things we can all do, and it’s, it’s something I did in those early days and still do, is try to at least be the best case study to someone else.

So if there’s someone that you admire, you read their book, maybe you took their course, you listened to their podcast, a wonderful way to serve is to give honest feedback, acclimation, affirmation and things like that. And that’s a wonderful way to build relationships, right? That you don’t have to be in the seat of expertise to do that.

You can very much. Come to it as a peer to peer way to serve or even a, I’m the client and you’re my mentor. You’re the coach that I follow. There’s a lot of value to be added that way too.

Pat Flynn: Yeah, that’s great. Now, tactically, that makes complete sense, but in practice, especially as an introvert like you and I both are, how do you get over those voices in your head that are stopping you?

Dustin Riechmann: Yeah, I think it is, if you’re truly doing it out of a place of service. Then you’re actually doing a disservice if you’re not stepping forward and making that connection or making that contribution to someone. So yeah, I’m painfully and introverted. I will get on a stage if you make me and I, and I’ve seen you on some stages and you rock it as an introvert.

So it’s, it’s not to mean that we don’t have the personality or the ability to connect, but it takes a lot of energy. And so I think realizing that there’s a pure ROI on the other side of that exertion, that that exertion of putting yourself out there and making that reach out and making that connection being focused on that and being focused on the outcome and that you’re gonna be able to provide that person and the fact that, you know, through the law of reciprocity, something awesomes probably gonna happen eventually from it.

That’s the mindset I have to put myself in to overcome this hurdle, which is a constant hurdle for me to overcome.

Pat Flynn: Can you give me an example of a specific human in your life who’s sort of made a, a big impact as you’ve built a relationship with them. How did you meet them? How did you connect with them, provide value and and what did that turn into?

Dustin Riechmann: Yeah, well this is an obvious one, so I won’t use this example with Pat. We’re gonna kind of demonstrate that over the, the next time that we have together. But another one that comes to mind pretty recently is someone named Ryan Deiss, who Pat probably recognizes that name from the digital marketing world.

So this goes through sort of a similar phased approach to how I served and got served in a way from Ryan. So whenever I was wanting to leave my engineering job, I was, I had Pat as a mentor from afar and I had Ryan as a mentor from afar. What I did was I invested for the first time in my education and my in-person connections by going to his conference in Austin, Texas, in a company called Digital Marketer.

So I literally took vacation time from an engineering position instead of going on a family trip, I went down here to learn digital marketing and I got to shake his hand and it started to become real for me. And I got put in this room with him, with him at the front of the room. And so, you know, over time I invested in one of his programs.

I did the work. Like very earnestly and gave a very glowing testimonial, which led to me getting invited to this sort of VIP day where I got to know him a little bit better and I just sort of like said, you know, this is the digital marketing wave for me at this period of my life. And chose that mentor, read, read his books, and then eventually about I guess about eight months ago I was in a room in Austin, Texas for a group that I was invited to be part of, and Ryan Deiss is across the room. And I knew enough about him because I didn’t really have a personal relationship with him. And I said, Hey, you know, I’ve heard you interviewed and you said you’re an introvert and that you’d rather not be on the stages that you’re on, but you know you’d do it ’cause it’s part of your job and you’d rather just like kind of have a beer and stand in a corner and have a conversation with someone. And so let’s do that. And so we we stood there and had a great conversation. And then I said, you know, towards the end of the conversation, you know, the other thing I’ve heard you say is that you never turn down a, a guest interview on a podcast because it’s such a great way to build relationships and you don’t have to travel.

And it’s comfortable, as an introvert, that’s kind of my thing. I’d love to have you on my podcast. And he came on and we had an incredible podcast episode. It’s become one of my top episodes. I’ve developed a personal relationship with him. So that’s a little bit of a long example, but. I hope the audience can take from that.

You know, I first invested in getting to know him through asynchronously, I guess you could say, through like reading books and online materials. Then I actually paid to be in the same room, and then I actually did his work and became a case study, and then I put myself in an actual room and then I invited him onto my podcast.

Right. You know, which, which was not a comfortable thing to do, but that was a relationship that I feel has paid many, many dividends over a decade at this point.

Pat Flynn: That’s incredible. Ryan was one of the first that I found way back when I started in 2008 too, and he’s gone through a number of different iterations in his journey and I’ve gotten recently to get to know him as well.

He and I were in Tennessee together for an author’s retreat and I’ve spoken and have keyed his event before Traffic Conversion Summit. He’s just a great guy, amazing guy.

Dustin Riechmann: And I didn’t mention in there, I also got to speak at Traffic and Conversion Center last year.

Pat Flynn: Oh, you to speak there too? Yeah. So nice.

See, like a lot of things happen when you take the long-term approach, but we live in this world now where we, where we want instant gratification. So how do you manage this expectation of hopefully one day something will happen with like the need to make things happen now, how do you think through that.

Dustin Riechmann: Yeah. Well, podcast guessing is my, my real tactical example of that. And so I know we’re gonna talk more about the procedures and the framework and how to do that. Well, what I want the audience to hear is, when I talk about podcast, guessing anywhere, including on this, this episode, right now, it’s one vehicle, but that same vehicle, you know, comes in a lot of different models, right?

And the whole idea is. To be able to give a win, win-win relationship through collaboration. You might call it partnership marketing or you know, borrowing other people’s audiences. People call it different things. And so to answer your question, Pat, we’ll use podcast guessing as an example. There are very measurable marketing science type of things that I can expect when I go through the process that will outline in a little while, right? So there is an immediate return, like I should know roughly how many email subscribers I’m gonna get and how many leads that is, how many sales calls that will be, and how many clients that will be.

And so if you do that on repeat, it’s like paid ads or any other sort of marketing system, there is a science to it and I think that that’s reassuring and it allows us to be very predictive. If, if we put this energy in, we’re gonna get some output out. You know, my engineering brain there, there is an engineering and a science to it, and I think the thing that makes these types of marketing approaches so special is it’s also human to human.

And so you get this amazing, outside factor, I would call it like a unicorn factor, where in the process of, say, being on one podcast a week and I’m generating X leads and growing my email list and, and getting the ROI from my business that I need along the way, I’m gonna meet some individual people, some humans, and we’re just gonna have some rapport, some spark, some innate connection that’s gonna create a unicorn event where this crazy stuff happens. I could have never imagined had I, you know, I would’ve never predicted it. However, I also would’ve never got it if had I not done the baseline activity. So I think the best approaches to marketing and business growth are where you get the best of both worlds. You get some predictive result and you get some outsized crazy opportunities that can come from that.

Pat Flynn: Yeah, and it’s, to Ryan’s point and your point, it’s a little easier than, for example, showing up and flying to a studio somewhere to shoot a video. It’s not as human as like a guest blog, which we used to always do back in the day. So I do agree that I think it’s a perfect medium. Guest podcasting. You showing up on somebody else’s audience to deliver value to serve first and over time, not only do you get those immediate returns like emails and potential, even customers, but the long-term relationship and things that can happen with that are, are incredible. And the more you do, the more that those opportunities stack up. I’ve seen it. You are seeing it and that’s amazing.

We’ve talked about this framework a little bit. Let’s actually dive into it and get into a little of the science and engineering behind how to do guest podcasting well in your approach to, to business growth.

Dustin Riechmann: Yeah, so I’ll walk through, its five Ps and as people are hearing this, of course it applies to my current business, which is, you know, basically coaching, right?

And, and helping people build online businesses. Is the same model I applied back in what we described for engaged marriage. At that time I didn’t have the vehicle of podcast guesting, but there’s a business in between where I sold meat sticks on podcasts with this framework. So I, I guess just to let everyone know, if you’re like, I am not sure if this is gonna work for me, am I really podcast worthy. This really is if you have any sort of online business, and even if you’re in the beginning stages of that, this framework will totally work and podcast guessing will totally work for you. You just kind of point it at the level of business and the type of outcomes that you’re looking for.

Pat Flynn: So did you say meat sticks?

Dustin Riechmann: I did say meat sticks.

Pat Flynn: Like literal meat sticks.

Dustin Riechmann: Yeah. So I feel like now I gotta fill in this quick gap. Yeah. So there was the marriage business while I was still in engineering. About 2018, I finally left my engineering position and I decided to be a full-time entrepreneur.

And so with that, I basically became a consultant and did all kinds of marketing for all kinds of people. One of my. Clients was a local butcher shop. So this is where this starts to make a little bit of sense. Okay. And he said, Hey Dustin, like we’re doing great with the butcher shop. Can you sell stuff online?

I said, as a matter of fact, I can. What do you have in mind? And so we launched this whole partnership for this company. It was called Fire Creek Snacks. It’s literally a better for you meat stick. So like a healthy slim jim. And we had this couple year period where we were doing e-commerce Shopify stuff, and then we got into wholesale. Like how to sell our product and other people’s stores. And I did 12 trade shows in 2019 and that was like the model. So I learned this whole new world of marketing and sales and it was like crazy. It was horrible for an introvert. That’s cool, but it, it did work. I think a lot of people will relate to this moment.

It’s march 2020 and I’m now driving to a trade show in Chicago and it’s canceled and I come home and half my clients have to fire me because they’re closed. And of course it was the Covid moment. Yeah. But where this actually starts to tie into the framework I’m gonna share is that moment, that dark night of the soul, this part where I like, I gotta go back to engineering, I’m screwed.

I don’t know what I’m gonna do. Actually led me to think differently and kind of put my tail between my legs and retreat and think, what can I do from home that would still capitalize on a lot of my gifts and my unique abilities? And what I found was podcasting and it was staring me right in the face.

’cause I love podcasting. I’ve been listening to your podcast for 10 years, but I’d never been a guest. I didn’t know how to be a guest. But Summer 2020, because of Fire Creek snacks and trying to sell meat sticks. I got on actually Nick Loppers podcast, the Side Hustle Show, another mutual friend. And that was the beginning of this whole podcast journey for me, a podcast guesting journey.

And from there I just started doing that on repeat. Got on some really cool shows and built a lot of great relationships. My unicorns include being in the biggest subscription box company in North America and actually getting on the shelves of Walmart with that business all coming out of the podcast guesting efforts, and I know we don’t have to go into all those details, but to let people know, like, it does really work for anything. Yeah. Like if I could sell $2 meat sticks to strangers on the internet by telling stories, you could totally use it for whatever you’re selling. And Pat to close the, the loop. I did that for like a year, 18 months, just all for Fire Creek snacks. And then, you know what happens is it becomes his own story.

I started getting interviewed about how did you use podcast Guessing to grow this meat stick thing? And then people started asking me how to help with the podcast guessing itself. And I eventually exited that partnership, sunset and Engaged Marriage, quit doing all the consulting, and for the past three years I’ve got this company 7 Figure Leap that just helps entrepreneurs use podcast guessing to grow their business.

So now maybe the framework will make a little more sense to people and I’ve got the, the loop outta your head about meat sticks.

Pat Flynn: Yeah, thank you. And I’m, I’m over at FireCreekSnacks.com now and take these kinds of things out. Fishing with me. So I’ll definitely place an order after the show here.

But let’s get into the framework now that we’ve gotten meat off of our minds.

Dustin Riechmann: So framework, I’m gonna go through it pretty quick. It’s five Ps and what, you know, we have a whole free email course version of this that we’re gonna give your listeners, you know, at the end of today’s episode. So if anyone’s listening and they’re like, this sounds awesome, don’t feel like you have to feverishly take notes. You’re gonna get all the assets you need to actually use this. But to give an overview, five Ps, purpose, plan, pitch, perform, profit. And so these go in order and that’s really important. And people that have mixed success with podcast casting are typically it’s the first and last step, but there’s one of these that’s usually off kilter and we have to come in and and help them figure it out.

So the first one is purpose. This is the thing most people wanna skip. And so this is really answering the question, why do I wanna be on a podcast as a guest, right? And that sounds kind of obvious, but it’s not like, who do you want to talk to? What’s the emotional place you wanna meet people? What’s the transformation you wanna provide to people when you have these opportunities?

And getting really clear on that. So I’m a StoryBrand guide, like messaging marketing is kind of like a big thing for me. And so we start there before we ever talk about which podcast to be on, right? Like, why do you wanna do this? And who are you trying to reach is the first question. Once we get clarity on that, that first step, then we can move on to step two, which is where most people expect me to start.

We call it plan ’cause it starts with a P, but basically it’s research, right? It’s just which shows should I be on, which shows would be profitable for me and my business. Once we know which shows to be on, then we move to step three. Pitch, which is how do I get on the shows? You know, how can I be cool, reach that host, show them how I’m gonna create a ton of value for their audience and get them to say yes to having me as a guest.

Once they say yes, then we move to step four, which is perform, and that’s basically. How are you gonna be a good guest? You know, like how do you introduce yourself? What stories do you tell? And most importantly, what’s that call to action at the end of the interview so that you can bring the right people over into your world, serve them deeper, and get the predictable ROI that we talked about earlier.

And then that leads us to step five, which is profit. There’s lots of reasons to do podcasting. We, pat and I both know lots of people who do it for lots of different reasons, but if you’re an entrepreneur, I hope one of the reasons you want to do it is profit. You wanna make your, your business have a bigger impact and you want to grow.

And so after you’re on a podcast, after they say yes, you’ve nailed the interview. That’s kind of where the work starts from the sense of monetization. And so we work on like a 90 day program. If, to give people context, the first 30 days is like the first four Ps. Like how do you find the right shows and get on them and, and do really good two thirds of it, the 60 day part of the 90 days is actually the profit part.

So there’s, there’s much more to be done after. And that gets into this whole flywheel thing that we’ll probably talk about.

Pat Flynn: Yeah. Where can people go to get more info and download this thing real quick?

Dustin Riechmann: Yeah, so 7FigureLeap.com/spi. So if you’re watching a video, you can see it over my shoulder, the the number seven  7FigureLeap.com/spi.

We put together a whole special landing page for your audience and it’s literally gonna walk you through not only the five steps, but we’ve gotta downloadable resource so you can work through these five steps on your own for free.

Pat Flynn: Cool. Good job on the call to action, by the way. Thanks.

What makes a good. Or great podcast to be a guest on. What are the factors you’re, you’re looking at really? Because for me, I’m just like, oh, well, like put me on Joe Rogan. That’s, that’s what I want. Right?

Dustin Riechmann: That’s what everyone says, right? Yeah. I think first and foremost, what I would say is you gotta get out of the mindset.

Not you pat, but the listener. You gotta get outta the mindset that has to be a big podcast to have any impact. So, Pat’s show is the biggest show I’ve ever been on. And I say that to on the heels of we’ve had more than seven figures of meat stick sales, not counting Walmart and not counting the subscription box from being on small and medium sized podcasts.

And we’ve had, we’re over seven figures in annual revenue for this current business seven figure leap through podcast guesting and other forms of this same sort of partnership collaboration mentality all through small and medium sized podcasts. So I want to kind of give the big disqualification. It’s awesome if you get on Joe Rogan, Amy Porterfield, Pat Flynn.

Like those are awesome opportunities and, and I hope you, you get there. I am five years into my guesting journey, and this is the biggest show I’ve been on and we’ve grown two seven figure businesses without big shows. You know, size does have some relevance, but it’s really more about the targeting and the niche and the specificity of where your message is gonna land.

So when you think about the audience, you know, size is part of that and we like to look at like the ratings on Apple as an example of a way to kind of give some relative size metrics. But you know, it’s really the specificity and where you can fill a, a gap in the content for a show that’s gonna be much more important.

And we can talk about, you know, more nuanced stuff around the audience, but that’s the obvious part. And that’s the part where people are like, yeah, it’s the audience. There’s these people listening, and some of them are gonna become my clients. True. But there’s lots of value to be had in being a podcast guest that has nothing to do with the audience.

For example, building relationship with the host, I’ve had many opportunities to be on shows where just the opportunity to get to know that host, build a relationship with them has been worth a hundred times the investment of of time that I made to be on that show. Right. Because the host is probably an influencer in your industry.

And the other thing that we can talk about as a strategy for monetization Pat, is think about all the other guests that are on a show. So when you see that Pat’s gonna speak at speak at Craft and Commerce, I mean, where my mind starts to go with that opportunity as wow, like. Look at all the other people speaking there.

He’s gonna be in the green room with all these people and he is gonna go out to dinner with them. And like every time I’ve got to speak on stage, like that’s an amazing, rich part of the experience. Well, with podcast guesting, you kind of have the same thing, right? You have all these other guests and all these new guests that are gonna appear on the same show.

It’s a loaded question and I’ll truncate myself there, but there’s lots of places to tap in to get value. And I think on the nose, make sure they do interviews, make sure it’s an active podcast that’s not dormant, and then make sure that it is about the right size where you feel comfortable that you could add some value.

Pat Flynn: Love it. How do I again, you, I think you’ve Touched on this earlier, but if I’m brand new or just I’m starting out, am I qualified yet to do this? What do I need at a minimum to go out and start finding podcasts to be a guest on?

Dustin Riechmann: Awesome question. I would say the thing to have at a minimum is a story and a call to action, right?

And so that call to action, if you’re really early could be follow me on LinkedIn, right? It could be have a call with me. It could be something very non-scalable. It, it could be very, very much like that. But when I say the reason you need to have a story is you do need to have something to teach.

Maybe have a well-developed framework, and you could talk for 90 days about podcast guessing, but maybe you just have your own story of how you got fired from your architecture job. And you found this new online business thing and it’s super exciting and you’d love to share with other people how you got started because the people you’re serving are the people who are, you know, just one step behind you.

And so I don’t want people to feel intimidated that they have to have some big online business to make it worthwhile. We work with a lot of people that are beginners, and the thing that you have to have is essentially a story to tell, because that’s the medium, right? So if you come on and you don’t have a cohesive story, that’s gonna be tough.

But aside from that, that’s kind of the basics, is a story and a call to action.

Pat Flynn: For sure. Do you have any frameworks for storytelling as a guest?

Dustin Riechmann: Yeah. I borrow this from StoryBrand. I get to, I guess, and I’m certified with them. But it’s a really simple framework and I, I love it. And it’s two pieces. So it’s empathy and authority.

So anytime you want to tell a great story or and, and affect people and, and change people always lead with empathy and back it up with authority. Right? So what does that mean? It basically means speaking to people in the before state, you know, where you wanna reach them, where they’re kind of in, in the muck or they’re in pain or they’re lacking pleasure.

And then the authority just talks about your ability to bring them over into the, the after the transformation that you provide. So, and as an example, if I said, hey, there’s probably a lot of coaches listening to this podcast, and I know personally I thought I had my coaching business figured out. We were doing multiple six figures, and you know what?

It was awesome ’cause it was all fed by referrals. Referrals are great. The problem is they’re great until they’re not. I woke up one day on my top referral partner told me he was quitting the business and then like three days later, I find out that my other referral partner just moved on and had a better opportunity.

So like overnight I was left with no leads and I was really starting to question whether I even could do business anymore. Like that’s empathy. Like if you, if you’re scared, if you’re like feeling vulnerable, if you don’t have a predictable way to generate leads for your business, like I totally get it.

That was me. Luckily for me. Whatever. I found a coach, I plugged into the system. I found podcast guesting and now I’m able to have predictable leads, which is awesome ’cause it gives me a lot more freedom. I’m able to hang out with my kids and not have to worry about whether the next referral’s coming.

And I’ve been able to help 200 people with this system and generate over, you know, $20 million of revenue. That’s authority. But if you said like, Hey Dustin, tell me about what you do. And I said. I made people $20 million. Like you sound arrogant, like it doesn’t come across, but if you lead with the empathy of what it feels like to be in their shoes and you can paint a picture for the authority.

And so what I gave you, pat was a more extreme example of that. But going back to a beginner, it’s as simple as saying, I thought I had my whole career worked out and I came in one Friday morning to this weird email from my boss and I walked into his office and there was a pink slip and next thing I knew my whole world was upside down and I was scared to death to come home that night and tell my wife about it. Like that’s empathy and then the authority. You know, luckily for me, I found Pat Flynn’s podcast and I was able to generate passive income online by finding my niche and my story. So, but empathy and authority is really the magic to storytelling.

Pat Flynn: That’s great. I love that breakdown. Let’s talk about the profit part of this. You said that there’s. The beginning happens at the, essentially the end of the podcast. And so are we taking people from the podcast as a guest to an email list? And then is there like a nurture sequence and what’s your process for that?

I mean, there’s a, again, a million ways to do it. What has worked for you?

Dustin Riechmann: Yeah, in a very basic sense, it’s exactly that. So, have a clear call to action at the end of the podcast that gets the anonymous people listening. So the thing about podcast guessing is everyone listening is basically anonymous, right?

You don’t really know who they are until they raise their own hand and say, I actually wanna know more about this. And so we have to have a mechanism to make them visible in almost all cases. I mean, I did like a coupon code for meat sticks, but for this type of audience, the people that are listening to us, it’s almost always gonna be your email list.

If you, for some reason, haven’t started an email list, I mean you could use like a social media following, but highly recommend email list as the call to action. Yeah, then we get them over and then we care for them, nurture them, give them the free thing, and, and kind of do, you know, normal marketing 1 0 1 from there to, to nurture them.

So that’s one aspect of it. Right? We don’t have the benefit of a, a full visual, like if we were in person or on a stage, but this is probably the right point to start talking about a flywheel. Yeah. And like building a marketing flywheel that’s fueled by this podcast, guesting call to action. Is that, is this a good time to go through that?

Pat Flynn: Yeah, that’s where I was leading to, so that’s perfect.

Dustin Riechmann: Oh, cool. Yeah. ’cause it, it’s easier to visualize when I talk about it in a wheel. So I’m gonna steal or borrow or give credit to Nathan Berry, a mutual friend. So he talks a flywheel guy all about flywheels all the time and, and, and he does a great job of it.

So if people are listening and they’re just not familiar with flywheels two basic premises is it’s like a wheel that rotates and every time it rotates, it goes faster and gets easier and it gets more and more powerful. This is not actually a flywheel, but I think it works as a better example. I like to talk about a merry-go-round.

So, you know, if you got kids, and I guess they still, I guess merry go-round are still legal. I don’t know, but a lot, a lot of my friends broke arms and and legs on ’em. But you know, this device on the playground, it spins and you get a bunch of kids on it and they’re like, daddy, pull me around. It’s really hard to get the thing turning and you get a couple of rotations, a couple more rotations, and eventually you’re able to push it with your finger, right?

It’s not quite like a self perpetuating motion, but it’s pretty close. It picks up its own momentum. So what we wanna build is a flywheel like that in our business for marketing to where it is circular, it’s a loop and it closes and goes faster and faster. And so if people want to think about a visual, think about a, a simple round circle and think about some wedges around the outside of it.

Those are what we’re gonna do after the interview is published. So the entry point into the pushing the merry-go-round is the interview. So we have this energy that comes from the interview, these eyeballs, attention, authority, relationships, right? And they’re feeding into this circle. And so yeah, the first wedge is your email list.

It’s like the first thing this energy feeds is the email list. ’cause we wanna capture that attention. And then I would say the second wedge would be sales. So, you know, sales could come immediately, they could come in a longer tail fashion, but just think there are some sales from the audience. And then if you move over from there, think about relationships.

So. Kind of the right side of the wheel. The way I like to draw it out is are all relationships. So the same interview should not only feed like your email list and get some sales, the predictable part of this equation, but it’s also gonna form a relationship with the host, a relationship with the listeners, and a relationship with the guest list, which I kind of alluded to earlier.

So if you do this right, you’ve got all these great peer to peer partner collaborator type of relationships just waiting for you as a byproduct of this energy. And then the very bottom of the wheels, we almost complete the loop is authority. Or actually I’ll say it’s content repurposing. So the other piece that this fuels is a lot of other content that you can use in whatever channels you’re active on, right?

If you do a podcast interview and it’s high quality. It’s all kinds of YouTube, LinkedIn, X, whatever. There’s all kind of Instagram. There’s all kinds of different content that comes from it. And then the final piece of the wedge that ties right back to the beginning is authority. Because every time you do this, you have more authority.

And so now the next time I wanna do a podcast interview because I have more authority from all the other stuff that I just outlined, it’s easier to get on a bigger show and well, it’s easier and it’s a bigger show, right? So as I do that loop, again, it’s a bigger email list, more sales, bigger relationships, more authority, and over and over again.

So as you continue to do this and you build some momentum, that’s sort of the big picture, we call it the six figure podcast, you know, guesting, flywheel, that’s what we build with clients. But like no matter what scale you’re doing this at, those are all things that are available to you as a output from your input of doing a podcast interview.

Pat Flynn: I love that. It’s true too. What the more you do, the more you get to do, which is just an amazing thing, especially if you show up and you perform and you have great stories to tell. Listeners often have podcasts and they hear you and then want you on their show. So a lot of amazing flywheel related things can happen. Can you talk to me a little bit about video podcasting and how that has added to the process. I mean, it’s a little bit more friction to, you know, get that set up and also to show up well in the video and all that stuff. But is this, is this something that you’re finding more and more now being common?

Is these podcasts that you’re gonna be a guest on, you show up on video, and are there any special tips that you have for that?

Dustin Riechmann: Honestly, it’s a hundred percent. I mean, there’s probably some older school shows that have just been super well established. You do audio only. But in the past several years, every show I’ve ever been a guest on has had a video component.

Now, some of you would say are video first. I know that’s the format you all are moving toward, and I think that’s super smart where you’re capturing higher quality video and you’re making an effort to be able to have some post-production to use it in different formats. But yeah, in general. Pretty much everyone’s going to capture video, and if you’re getting into this for the first time, just assume they will.

Like, you know, why not? And even if they’re not gonna publish it as a video, if you have any opportunity to even record it on your own side, I would, you know, like capture your own screen because there’s so much you can do with the video as like a post-production asset. So yeah, as far as tips, one is to be dynamic.

So realize that when you’re not speaking, especially. There’s probably gonna be someone staring at your mug, you know, at some point in the future. So and that just comes down to good interpersonal communication. Like if you were in person and I was talking to Pat, I maintain eye contact, I’d smile, I’d, you know, nod along, use my hands when I’m speaking.

Those are all really good things to do on a video because eventually someone’s gonna watch this and want to have that human to human connection as if you’re standing in the same room. That’s probably the biggest one. And then, you know, the more table stakes sort of things are lighting where I sit, I happen to have some natural light, which most times of the day is good.

Sometimes it’s a little harsh, but if you don’t have that, then obviously have some sort of external lighting. So as a guest, you certainly don’t need a full studio. You don’t need like a professional YouTube setup. If you have that, use it. But you should at least have some reasonable lighting center yourself in the frame left to right, you have a little space between your head and the top of the frame.

So these are just sort of like video 1 0 1. You could, you could, I’m sure Pat has his tutorial on how to show up well on video. But yes, I think you should assume it’s gonna be video. And then I think it’s awesome when it is because then you can get shorts and snippets and the full long form video will often go on YouTube, which makes it much more discoverable than audio only platforms.

Pat Flynn: Love that. I definitely wanna also add that the microphone that you use, if you’re gonna do this a lot, like invest in a good one. Yeah, you definitely stand out, especially in the podcasting format with a good mic like this one here, this Shure SM7b. I mean, you’re going to hear the intonation and the emotion that comes outta your voice.

And if you’re trying to connect with an audience in this human to human level, you’re telling these stories, especially if. You’re being vulnerable or something incredible happened, like you want all of it to come out there in the best way possible. So definitely invest in a good microphone. Before we wrap up here, Dustin, this has been super great.

I think people know how valuable guest podcasting is, but the way you’ve placed it into this framework that helps stack on itself is, is really amazing and hopefully will inspire people to get started once again. Where is that link to go and grab that sort of foundational material from?

Dustin Riechmann: 7FigureLeap.com/spi. So hopefully pretty easy for people to remember. And when you get there, it’s just gonna say profitable podcasting playbook. And this is something that we typically have in our super high end flagship program, and I wanted to pull it out and give it as a DIY version of what we do complete with all the downloads and all the, all the stuff that people might need is tools.

The other thing I would invite, if you download that, you’re gonna be on my email list. Obviously I am very high touch and so, you know, if you’re like, I’m stuck, I have a question, I need some personal help, like, don’t hesitate to ask me and I’ll do my best to respond. But yeah, 7FigureLeap.com/spi is the place to go to get started.

Pat Flynn: That’s awesome. Thanks, Dustin. What has been your most memorable guest spot? Like, what happened in that, in that time? Not, not this episode, obviously.

Dustin Riechmann: I was gonna say, man, it’s like how do I not say this episode? This episode was honestly really important to me because it was such a full circle moment. I mean, it was literally going, taking me back to the very earliest days of my entrepreneurial journey and this collaboration with Pat and, and the guest post.

And so it, this was very, very special. I, I would say. Two other ones come to mind and they’re instructive to the audience for different reasons. One was actually on Digital Marketers Podcast for much the same reason. So I mentioned Ryan Deiss. Well, Ryan Deiss is not the host of this podcast, and in fact, he had sort of stepped away as the, in the day-to-day leadership by the time I was on it.

But a few years ago I was on Digital Marketers Podcast and it was this crazy experience. ’cause I got on, I was really excited. I was extremely, extremely ill. And so I had, I was taking all the honey and hot teas and everything. I was like. Everything I could possibly do to be able to even speak, but it was the biggest opportunity to date.

So I got on this thing and the host, Mark Degrass was amazing. And he’s like, Dustin, I’ve picked up my kid and I have to leave in 14 minutes go. And I just had to teach the five P framework and like the fastest I’ve ever had to teach it while Ill, but it brought, it was kind of like, you know, the Jordan flu game, I guess.

Like, it, it brought out the best in me and I was, it was so like on point that I’ve used that recording so many times to send people like. This is the five P framework. Even better than I could do it just like on my own. The reason that was so special was the sort of performance was so unique. And then what happened from that was I developed a relationship with Mark.

He loved the framework and he is actually the one that invited me to speak at Traffic and Conversion Summit. The, in what ended up being the final one and 2014, so or 2024 rather. So I was on stage at TNC teaching this framework because of that podcast appearance. And I, and what I want the audience to hear there is I had no relationship with him or you know, really digital marketer in any way, but that’s the type of cool unicorn thing that could happen.

I was speaking on the biggest, one of the biggest stages in marketing nine months after that interview, and that was awesome.

Pat Flynn: That’s so cool.

Dustin Riechmann: The other one I would say is much more recently, it hasn’t, it’ll actually publish right around the time that this one comes out probably, pat. It’s that mutual friend Nathan Berry.

And big into the flywheels as I described, the one that fuels our marketing efforts and what we teach. And I got to share that with Nathan and at Craft and Commerce last year and developed a relationship. And that’s actually how I got to know Matt Garland and Caleb and you know, eventually circle back to you, Pat.

So that being in that room and talking about this specific thing about flywheels led to lots of cool stuff. And that’s the power of relationships. And it led me to be able to fly out to Boise about a month ago as we’re recording this, and actually do an in studio and Kit Studios with Nathan teaching this framework on a whiteboard and getting coached by him about how to perfect the flywheel.

And that was really special because it was in person. Again, like I love Kit, I love Nathan, I love Flywheels, and like now I’m like the expert being featured on his podcast. And it all happened through a handshake that happened at Craft and Commerce in June of 2024, so not very long ago as as we’re speaking.

And so those two come to mind because they’re so full circle for me. And you know, I don’t even know if they’re like sales wise, if those are the biggest ones I’ve done, but relationship wise, those are really, really important to me.

Pat Flynn: That’s really cool. Will you be headed to Craft and Commerce this year as well?

Dustin Riechmann: I will be there. I’ll be cheering you on hopefully from like the first couple rows.

Pat Flynn: Oh, thank you. Thank you. I find out if we hit the New York Times bestseller list by the time I’m there, so hopefully we can, we can all celebrate. If not it’s okay.

Dustin Riechmann: We’ll celebrate together. Yeah, we’ll make it happen. I’ll, I’ll do what I can to help.

Pat Flynn: And it’ll be good to reconnect in person.

Dustin, thank you so much. Again for today, 7FigureLeap.com/spi is where you want to go, and I’m looking forward to seeing you soon. Yeah, man, I’ll see you in Boise. See you soon. Thank you.

All right. I hope you enjoyed this episode in conversation with Dustin. Dustin is absolutely incredible, and as you can see, this framework is not very difficult to understand, but you still have to take action and do the thing, so if you wanna check it out and his framework and get something downloaded so that you can know exactly what to do, ’cause as he talked about. Meat sticks, meat sticks, and when you meet people, those relationships stick, right? I don’t know where that came from, but I do know where you need to go, which is seven, that’s the number seven, 7FigureLeap.com/spi. So 7FigureLeap.com/spi. You can go download that deliverable and get access to that there, and that’d probably be the best thing to do right now. So go there.

And also, if you haven’t done so already, please, please, please. This is the time I know now for me to ask, head to LeanLearningBook.com. Pick up the bonuses that are still available for you and whether you pick up one book or several to then hand out, just thank you so, so much for all the support and I cannot wait to have you read it, to leave an honest review and see this thing make a difference.

You know, I’ve always said, and many of you who’ve been with me in the past might recognize the phrase, be an agent of change in the world of education and learning, and this is my work to do that. I’m very proud of it and I hope that you, I hope that you love it. So again, LeanLearningBook.com. Thank you.